Hi Simon! When will I be able to post on JWN? The Board allows me to start a thread but won't go past stage two, it's the same with the "Like" button, won't allow me to click "like" on all the good threads.
Trailer Park Pioneer
JoinedPosts by Trailer Park Pioneer
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Please post new forum feedback or questions here
by Simon inwell, the switchover happened - there were a couple of things i had to fix which meant the posting was disabled for longer than i planned but it's now enabled and some people have already posted.. if you have any questions about the new format or suggestions on how to improve it, please post them here.. if you are having trouble signing in or posting then you'll need to email me instead.. many thanks to everyone for their patience during the changeover !.
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Are Jehovah's Witnesses ever "good enough", must they remain anxious and fragile for fear they will not be saved by their works?
by Trailer Park Pioneer inas a jehovah's witness you know you can never do enough without hearing stories of another witness doing twice what your doing and living off half the money your living on because they give all their time and money to the watchtower.
this is totally bunk, reading romans 7:21-24 paul knew his condition was hopeless without the free gift from god.
paul put all his emphasis on jesus christ, not some self-appointed apostles whose proof offered up is over 150 years of failed prophecy!
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Trailer Park Pioneer
Lisa, it's never enough according to the Watchtower's commandments, is it any wonder anxiety, depression, fear and mental illness plague lots of witnesses? The Governing Body is hoarding all the joy for themselves and after reading C.O.C. and I.S.O.C.F the boss Men designed the Watchtower's Corporate Mission Statement to keep all their members in a state of fear, create a sense of worthlessness and for God's sake, don't use your brain or your being proud with ego. Looking back it's obvious we never belonged in the Group because we are valuable, each person has intrinsic value and worth in Gods eyes, the Watchtower's teachings are not Bible-based, they are Law based trying to find the splinter in each of our eyes while ignoring their long history of Failed Prophecy!
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Are Jehovah's Witnesses ever "good enough", must they remain anxious and fragile for fear they will not be saved by their works?
by Trailer Park Pioneer inas a jehovah's witness you know you can never do enough without hearing stories of another witness doing twice what your doing and living off half the money your living on because they give all their time and money to the watchtower.
this is totally bunk, reading romans 7:21-24 paul knew his condition was hopeless without the free gift from god.
paul put all his emphasis on jesus christ, not some self-appointed apostles whose proof offered up is over 150 years of failed prophecy!
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Trailer Park Pioneer
Jehovah's Witnesses and their push for Works using James Chapter 2, good article written by CARM.
Question: What about Jehovah's Witnesses and works' salvation?
Answer: Speaking with Jehovah’s Witnesses about Salvation by Grace Alone
Today I spoke with a JW who agreed with me that we are in need of grace to cover our sins, yet he added that we also have to follow God’s law in order to be saved--in accordance with JW theology. After admitting that he cannot always follow the law correctly, his view was pared down to "Don’t do the really bad things and at least try." What we are left with is a salvation that depends upon human effort at least as much as divine grace. He admitted that we need to have an attitude of humility, but that works are necessary for salvation. Salvation, in JW theology of course, means something different; but for this article we will have to shelve that discussion.
Scripture clearly teaches salvation by grace through faith alone. However, it also teaches good works. So, in the JW mindset, the two apparently become confused. The following is an argument that could possibly be used to help the open-minded JW (or anyone struggling with the interplay between faith and works).
In John 14:21, Jesus said that whoever loves Him will obey His commands. But surely this demands that we obey at all times--not only some of the time. One theologian made this observation: "Genuine love for God leads to wholehearted obedience. If you told your spouse that you loved her (or him) at certain times but that you struggled to love her at others, your relationship would be in jeopardy. Yet we assume that God is satisfied with occasional love or partial obedience. He is not."
If God is not satisfied with partial obedience, then none of us can satisfy God. None of us can please Him since we are all disobedient at times. If our love for God is dependent upon our obedience, as Jesus said, and if His acceptance of us depends upon our love for Him, then we cannot be accepted because we all disobey. But what if we sincerely try? Surely God would accept that. What if I told my wife I really try to love her, but I can’t always do it?
So then, how is anyone accepted? It is not by our love for God but His love for us (1 John 4:10). We are accepted by grace through faith alone. Ephesians 2:8-9 andRomans 3:28 say that grace alone brings justification before God. Our efforts to obey could not satisfy Him as Blackaby pointed out. Only Christ’s finished work on the cross could do that (Romans 3:21-25). It would be arrogant to say that we can add anything to Christ’s finished work.
But doesn’t James say that faith without works is dead (James 2:26)? What role do works play in God’s acceptance of us? None! We have already seen that. So, how do good works fit in then? First, they are an outward sign of the faith that has already saved the one who has it. In the "faith-without-works-is-dead" passage, James used Abraham’s work of offering his son to God as an example (James 2:20-23). But this act of righteousness did not do anything to bring him righteousness. That had already been granted.
Not only do works point to the saving grace in us but they also earn us the rewards--among them a greater quality of life, especially in the life to come.
Good works are the result of our salvation; God saves us to do good works. It is not that He saves us by them (Ephesians 2:10).
To summarize the argument:
- To love God means to obey Him.
- But we do not always obey Him.
- God is not pleased with our occasional love any more than our spouse would be.
- Therefore, we cannot gain God’s acceptance through our obedience.
- Christ’s sacrifice wins God’s acceptance for us when we put our faith in Him.
- Good works follow as a sign to other people that we are God’s people, and we are rewarded for our good works.
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Is the Watchtower Shifting All Financial and Legal Risk to Local Elders, are they 100% liable for Negligence?
by Trailer Park Pioneer inwhat is the watchtower organization leaving behind for all the kingdom halls after their done siphoning them dry?
who is going to pay for a lawsuit or damages when some incompetent elders or three are busted for something very bad?
will the watchtower help or leave them alone for the sharks to shred to pieces?
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Trailer Park Pioneer
I agree with all of you the Watchtower is not being honest with the Elder's Body, if only the Elders thought this one through! I know Elders taken to court over disfellowshiping, the Watchtower helped with that case but others the Watchtower let their Elders wiggle and get a court appointed solicitor or defender. Their goal is to keep all the green backs, donations and Estates free from Satan's Lawyers. More examples of "Money above the Congregation and "Be the Fall Guy for Jehovah, he's protect you in those prison showers!"
Watchtower should make all their Elders watch Shaw-shank Redemption and say, 'see, that's you if you don't follow our rules and obey!" Thanks for considering this thought, feel really bad for the Elders who might get rolled on this and think "Oh Jehovah is really protecting the Slave from Satan", NO, it's the Slave is putting the Elders in front of the Train while they jump back on the platform. There are solutions to these legal puzzles and layers of protection, Big Tobacco once thought they were immune from lawsuits, after $1 Billion plus in defense costs they paid out huge!
"They want the best of both worlds- all the money from the local congregations and the property but none of the responsibilities for actions. It won't work in the vast number of cases"
Chase
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Are Jehovah's Witnesses ever "good enough", must they remain anxious and fragile for fear they will not be saved by their works?
by Trailer Park Pioneer inas a jehovah's witness you know you can never do enough without hearing stories of another witness doing twice what your doing and living off half the money your living on because they give all their time and money to the watchtower.
this is totally bunk, reading romans 7:21-24 paul knew his condition was hopeless without the free gift from god.
paul put all his emphasis on jesus christ, not some self-appointed apostles whose proof offered up is over 150 years of failed prophecy!
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Trailer Park Pioneer
As a Jehovah's Witness you know you can never do enough without hearing stories of another witness doing twice what your doing and living off half the money your living on because they give all their time and money to the Watchtower. This is totally bunk, reading Romans 7:21-24 Paul knew his condition was hopeless without the Free Gift From God. Paul put all his emphasis on Jesus Christ, not some Self-Appointed Apostles whose proof offered up is over 150 Years of Failed Prophecy! Think of all the guilt JWs are subjected to, the Watchtower avoids using all the Scriptures that say
21 I have discovered this principle of life—that when I want to do what is right, I inevitably do what is wrong. 22 I love God’s law with all my heart. 23 But there is another power within me that is at war with my mind. This power makes me a slave to the sin that is still within me. 24 Oh, what a miserable person I am! Who will free me from this life that is dominated by sin and death? 25 Thank God! The answer is in Jesus Christ our Lord. So you see how it is: In my mind I really want to obey God’s law, but because of my sinful nature I am a slave to sin. (Romans 7:21-24)
Discerning False Prophets
1 Dear friends, do not believe everyone who claims to speak by the Spirit. You must test them to see if the spirit they have comes from God. For there are many false prophets in the world. (1 John 4:1)
1 Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ a has become a child of God. And everyone who loves the Father loves his children, too. 2 We know we love God’s children if we love God and obey his commandments. 3 Loving God means keeping his commandments, and his commandments are not burdensome. 4 For every child of God defeats this evil world, and we achieve this victory through our faith. 5 And who can win this battle against the world? Only those who believe that Jesus is the Son of God. (1 John 5:1-5)
Fantastic Article written by this author, wow!
http://thewatchtowerfiles.com/salvation/
The adherent follows a strict set of rules and code of conduct. He or she works tirelessly to please the leadership of the organization which operates under the guise of God Himself.
Unfortunately the cult member is never granted 100% confirmation that he or she is “saved”. Whether they’ve been working for six months, a year or fifty years, there is always some question or seed of doubt placed in their minds by the leadership. There is always some new plateau of perfection to attain to.
With Scientologists they have to get to “clear” (their term for perfection) by paying through the nose for countless auditing sessions.
With Jehovah’s Witnesses, they have to maintain a level of performance inside the group while observing hundreds of written and unwritten rules regarding dress, grooming, employment, health, social status and associations as well as regular meeting attendance and spending countless hours in “field service” recruiting others for the cause and selling books and magazines for the mother organization. However the “perfection” they seek is still yet unattainable. They have to wait for Armageddon (the end of the world) to come so that they can spend the next thousand years seeking physical perfection. Even then they aren’t guaranteed their salvation. At any point during that thousand.
Question: What about Jehovah's Witnesses and works' salvation?
Answer: Speaking with Jehovah’s Witnesses about Salvation by Grace Alone
Today I spoke with a JW who agreed with me that we are in need of grace to cover our sins, yet he added that we also have to follow God’s law in order to be saved--in accordance with JW theology. After admitting that he cannot always follow the law correctly, his view was pared down to "Don’t do the really bad things and at least try." What we are left with is a salvation that depends upon human effort at least as much as divine grace. He admitted that we need to have an attitude of humility, but that works are necessary for salvation. Salvation, in JW theology of course, means something different; but for this article we will have to shelve that discussion.
Scripture clearly teaches salvation by grace through faith alone. However, it also teaches good works. So, in the JW mindset, the two apparently become confused. The following is an argument that could possibly be used to help the open-minded JW (or anyone struggling with the interplay between faith and works).
In John 14:21, Jesus said that whoever loves Him will obey His commands. But surely this demands that we obey at all times--not only some of the time. One theologian made this observation: "Genuine love for God leads to wholehearted obedience. If you told your spouse that you loved her (or him) at certain times but that you struggled to love her at others, your relationship would be in jeopardy. Yet we assume that God is satisfied with occasional love or partial obedience. He is not."
If God is not satisfied with partial obedience, then none of us can satisfy God. None of us can please Him since we are all disobedient at times. If our love for God is dependent upon our obedience, as Jesus said, and if His acceptance of us depends upon our love for Him, then we cannot be accepted because we all disobey. But what if we sincerely try? Surely God would accept that. What if I told my wife I really try to love her, but I can’t always do it?
So then, how is anyone accepted? It is not by our love for God but His love for us (1 John 4:10). We are accepted by grace through faith alone. Ephesians 2:8-9 andRomans 3:28 say that grace alone brings justification before God. Our efforts to obey could not satisfy Him as Blackaby pointed out. Only Christ’s finished work on the cross could do that (Romans 3:21-25). It would be arrogant to say that we can add anything to Christ’s finished work.
But doesn’t James say that faith without works is dead (James 2:26)? What role do works play in God’s acceptance of us? None! We have already seen that. So, how do good works fit in then? First, they are an outward sign of the faith that has already saved the one who has it. In the "faith-without-works-is-dead" passage, James used Abraham’s work of offering his son to God as an example (James 2:20-23). But this act of righteousness did not do anything to bring him righteousness. That had already been granted.
Not only do works point to the saving grace in us but they also earn us the rewards--among them a greater quality of life, especially in the life to come.
Good works are the result of our salvation; God saves us to do good works. It is not that He saves us by them (Ephesians 2:10).
To summarize the argument:
- To love God means to obey Him.
- But we do not always obey Him.
- God is not pleased with our occasional love any more than our spouse would be.
- Therefore, we cannot gain God’s acceptance through our obedience.
- Christ’s sacrifice wins God’s acceptance for us when we put our faith in Him.
- Good works follow as a sign to other people that we are God’s people, and we are rewarded for our good works.
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I was invited to the Kingdom Hall and nobody greeted after five meetings
by Trailer Park Pioneer in"i felt like it was "bait and switch", no "loving brotherhood :(?".
interesting question posted on yahoo, the problem is witnesses are not telling the truth.
how many times did you experience people not saying anything after some prolonged illness or separation from the kingdom hall for work reasons?
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Trailer Park Pioneer
When I was a kid I missed meetings for months because I was having trouble reconciling some of the Watchtower's teachings, if only I followed through it would have shaved off thirty years of my wife from the Cult. The BS Conductor asked me "Have you and your wife moved to another Kingdom Hall because you've missed lots of meetings!" Another thoughtless and now almost dead JW said "Hey, it's good to see you because we thought you were dead!", replied with "If you thought I was dead, how come you never checked up on me?" JWs have a long history of ignoring people and families they judge as "fringe witnesses", they are not happy when people who miss Meetings move in to their Kingdom Hall because it lowers their average hours.. Everyone has seen JWs and their lack of love in action, everyone has their own story of trying to talk with some witnesses for decades only to get ignored.
People reminiscence of "The Good Old Days" but I don't remember them, do you? Can you recall times when JWs were so great you never doubted we lived in a Spiritual Paradise and everyone looked out after your personal interest instead of trying to shake you down for money or sell you vitamins or Amway products? Does anyone remember attending the perfect congregation and what was it like? The "Grass is Greener Kingdom Hall" was always a issue here, people jumped from Kingdom Hall to Kingdom Hall once the new wore off and they felt they were not getting enough attention.
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new member- my story
by AndDontCallMeShirley in"that which can be asserted without evidence, can.
be dismissed without evidence.
" - christopher hitchens.
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Trailer Park Pioneer
i have enjoyed you posts over the last few years, their often the highlight of my visit to JWN. We all seem to have had some run-ins with the Self-Appointed JW LawMen! I heard the lie by someone at Bethel who is one of the assistants to the GB and works in Legal that Ray Franz was pulled off his part in Atlanta because he had a psychotic break, JWs lie. All anyone has to do is read the writings of this man and they will be like the political followers of Herod, the Sanhedrin security who said "This man speak's nothing bad!" only to have religious leaders say "You too are not deceived, this accursed Crowd is fooled!"
"Then, I did the unthinkable! I read Crisis of Conscience by Ray Franz. I am old enough to remember the great Bethel "apostate" purging of circa 1980. Raymond Franz was the devil incarnate, a rebel against god and his chosen organization! Or so I had always believed. I had resolved that if Crisis of Conscience was nothing more than the rantings of an embittered, disenfranchised JW with an ax to grind, I would discard the book and move on. What I found was quite the contrary . Ray's arguments are flawless, his insider-view of the Organization devastating to WT theology, and his demeanor beyond criticism. After completing his book, I concluded that, if the WT organization was headed by men like Ray Franz, it would truly be a Christ-like arrangement, not the Pharisaical monopoly it is now, hijacked by self-aggrandizing depots and tyrannical spiritual thugs promoting a secular agenda masquerading as religion. I have since read In Search of Christian Freedom, equally as good as CoC
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Feb Kingdom Ministry 2015: Irate Householders - why so angry?
by Trailer Park Pioneer infeb kingdom ministry 2015, irate householders, "we don't apologize for our work", "did they hear rumors about jws"?
why so angry?
blood or disfellowshipping?.
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Trailer Park Pioneer
Bill that BS made it's way everywhere, our Territory was once worked every eight weeks but "due to incompetent and inefficient witnessing" as hinted by our past three circuit overseers, the last one I listened to complained "how come you once covered your territory so zealously, the Brothers have lovingly divided your territory twice and your not able to work it in a Year?"
We got tired of the same old crap, peddling magazines nobody wants to read, is it any wonder our territory is not worked "like we use to?"
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Feb Kingdom Ministry 2015: Irate Householders - why so angry?
by Trailer Park Pioneer infeb kingdom ministry 2015, irate householders, "we don't apologize for our work", "did they hear rumors about jws"?
why so angry?
blood or disfellowshipping?.
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Trailer Park Pioneer
However, the party line was that "you don't work a territory to death, rather, you work it to life." (I fool you not!). Consequently, whatever conciliatory talk / explanations were suggestedby the WTS, the real issue was never ever mentioned. (Not that your typical Logan City resident - in his singlet and thongs,with a beer belly spilling over the top of his stubbie shorts - was ever very amenable to reasoning anyway, in this or any other matter).
Bill.
Bill that BS made it's way everywhere, our Territory was once worked every eight weeks but "due to incompetent and inefficient witnessing" as hinted by our past three circuit overseers, the last one I listened to complained "how come you once covered your territory so zealously, the Brothers have lovingly divided your territory twice and your not able to work it in a Year?"
We got tired of the same old crap, peddling magazines nobody wants to read, is it any wonder our territory is not worked "like we use to?"
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Feb Kingdom Ministry 2015: Irate Householders - why so angry?
by Trailer Park Pioneer infeb kingdom ministry 2015, irate householders, "we don't apologize for our work", "did they hear rumors about jws"?
why so angry?
blood or disfellowshipping?.
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Trailer Park Pioneer
Balter, when I downloaded this file it said "Adobe downloading to "TrailerparkPioneer's computer", if your computer has your name or anyone else who uses it, the downloads head to those files. I will snippet this for you so you can see what I am talking about Not trying to create a conspiracy, it's a fact your Microsoft Windows 7 or Windows 8 puts your name down on those documents when you register.
